Harrington writes, "A white welfare worker tells of the children when the first begin school. They show off their books; they are interested and friendly. But then, in a few years, they learn. Their schools are crowded; the instruction is inferior, and the neighborhood is omnipresent and more powerful than the classroom."
In your lives, which is a more powerful force: the classroom or the 'street?' How do they teach you two different things and who determines where you should learn?
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so this is actually about act 1 scene one of Fences but I didn't know where else to post it :]
In act one scene one of Fences, the main character Troy talks about the unfairness of segregation. What I think he ultimately brings to the table however, is the issue of human emotions and aspirations. When he talks about his son, he explains how his son should get a job he may dislike, in order to support his wife. Troy has fallen into the trap segregation, in this case, but any act that makes you feel inferior or unworthy can evoke this emotion. While reading Romeo and Juliet, you may have felt this. You may have thought Romeo and Juliet should have given up on their love, because obviously the people around them would not let them succeed. Troy believes his son’s dream of being a musician is unreachable, and therefore he should settle for a merely acceptable job. The white people around them will not let them, men of color, succeed.
However, Lyons, like Romeo and Juliet, does not see the worth in this. As Lyons says, “I need something that’s gonna help me get out of bed in the morning. Make me feel like I belong in the world”(pg.18). Without music Lyons doesn’t see what the worth in living is. Romeo and Juliet don’t see the worth in life with out each other. So both sacrifice the easier choice, in order to follow their hearts and make them happy. In both cases we can see how foolish these impulses may be. As foolish as they are, I find them one of the only ways to stay true to your self. If you cannot escape into something you love each day, you are simply living your life for others.
Troy’s outlook follows just this. He cannot imagine someone succeeding in a world of white men telling them they can’t. He works to take care of his wife, and although he says he will fight death to the end, he is ultimately just living up the rest of his worth until death comes. He once had a passion for baseball, and when his dreams failed once, he gave up all hope. I think an important lesson to take out of this scene of the book is this. Do what makes you happy, because otherwise you are wasting the time you have been granted on Earth. You have to always believe that you can succeed, even when everything seems unhopeful and unfair.
Other people could date who they wanted, but Romeo and Juliet could not because of a family feud. Other people could be a musician if they wanted, but Lyons cannot because of his skin color. Through all the hardships and unfairness you must find a balance. You may know people who live their lives for other people, but I believe there comes a point where you must become selfish. Sometimes you have to do what’s best for yourself, or soon you will lose yourself. This is something I believe everyone should consider before they make a life-changing decision.
Fences, act1 scene 1
I agree with the part where you said “Troy has fallen into the trap segregation”. You cited his giving up on playing baseball and his conflict with Lyons about his continuing to play music and waste his time. I think that from Troy’s point of view, giving up on your aspirations and dreams is an inevitable part of living in a country dominated by white people. That’s why he doesn’t care about Jackie Robinson’s success, he’s seen “a hundred niggers play baseball better than Jackie Robinson” (p. 10) so he thinks that Jackie Robinson’s success was a fluke. That’s why he pushes Lyons away from playing music as well as pushing his other son Cory away from playing football because “it ain’t gonna get him nowhere”.(p. 8) Cory was asked to join the football team that means that he wouldn’t have to fight to get in and do what he wants. By refusing Cory this opportunity, not only is he refusing to get Cory out of the ghetto even for a little while, he’s refusing an opportunity to break down social barriers, thus furthering the cycle of racism. Another thing I noticed about Troy perpetuating racism I that he uses the term nigger. And the funny thing is that he’s the only one who does it.
Troy is clearly not happy with his situation, however he takes part in the reinforcing circle of poverty and discrimination because it advances his personal situation. Troy’s point of view sets up what I think will be a key issue in this book; what’s more important, trying to break the mold of racism or survival?
I also thought I’d ask a question that stumped me:
It the beginning of the play (p.1) it says that Bono admires and seeks to emulate Troy’s honesty. However the play starts with Bono saying “Troy, you ought to stop that lying!” and Troy continues to lie throughout the first act.
I’m just confused and was wondering if any one could explain this please
Ok, well going back to the original topic, I think that for me personally and most likely everyone at Berwick, the classroom plays a much more powerful part in my life and my "survival" as both a human and American citizen. Since essential aspects of survival are automatically given to me (such as shelter, food, education, etc.), I don't have to worry about learning how to defend myself on the street. Society that's economically advanced has different priorities than poorer sections of America that must learn street smarts in order to earn what small amount of money they can and defend themselves against violence. For everyone at Berwick, our priorities are centered around education so that we can survive in the more economically advanced part of America by going to college in order to succeed in a career. I think this drastic difference between the priorities of those who focus on education and those who focus on survival in the midst of poverty contributes to the symbol of fences in the play we're reading. This is just one of the many walls between the upper and lower classes of society that separates us even more. While those living in poverty and those living in a society of higher income are already separated by their significant difference in wealth, they are also separated by this difference in priorities. In order to understand both perspectives, I think that society must recognize these differences instead of trying to ignore them, particularly the wealthier, more conservative Americans. We won't be able to bring about change unless we both recognize the roots of the problem and the fact that they stem from these fences that society has built between upper and lower class, and black and white Americans. I also believe that people must not only understand this, but must take action in actually changing their mindset and views on people of the opposite race and those who are less fortunate or more fortunate than they are. I agree with Harrington that putting an end to Harlem poverty has everything to do with ending discrimination against African Americans, but people also must reexamine their personal views and try to alter themselves to bring about the change.
Both the classroom and the street have an impact on my life, but that is only taking part of the equation. I believe that there are 5 factors that shape your life: media, society, human nature, religion and the experiences of ourselves and others. Media is the news, the paper and the events in the world. It also includes the advertising. Media gives us preconceived notions about what we should be like, or what we should want. Like a perfect body or a new car. Society is other people and setting and their effects on us. One society is Berwick Academy and the teachers there. Another would be my church. While the church wouldn't exactly be considered street, in some cases it teaches the exact opposite of what the school is teaching. This is similar to the need for education vs the need for survival. Society goes along with media in the bandwagon marketing style as well as spread of fashions and other objects. If a new plasma screen TV is the cool thing to get you are much more likely to get it then just seeing an ad. Human nature is what we naturally do, human psychology. One thing that we do that leads to racism is not accepting or liking change or differences. If you don't know someone of another color you would natural feel a little bit nervous around them due to the obvious differences. While they as a person may be really nice, racism occurs when you begin to think that because they are different they are evil or subhuman. Religion is doing what your religion says is right. For Christians this would be unconditional love and not lying, stealing, killing, ect. This has the power of being a very powerful force in our lives, but we don't always allow it to, because sometimes the media, society, our experiences and human nature are in direct conflict with what religion is telling us to do. Our experiences shape our outlook on life in many ways as well. Last year I used to ask a lot of questions that I didn't know the answer to, but often times the class would laugh at me, so now I end up not asking as many questions because of that. There are many more factors than just black and white that influence our lives, pretty much anything that happens to you anywhere will impact your life.
Elizabeth, I wanted to point out something you said here:
"Since essential aspects of survival are automatically given to me (such as shelter, food, education, etc.), I don't have to worry about learning how to defend myself on the street."
This is not true. Shelter and food may be given to you now, but they are not guaranteed to you. And there is more that people need to survive than food, shelter and education. They need people who will help them and care for them. And while you may never get into a fight, you should know how to defend yourself. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" by Theodore Roosevelt shows this. You can be kind and gentle with people, but you should be able to escape from a violent situation or fight back, rather than just rolling over and playing dead.
"Society that's economically advanced has different priorities than poorer sections of America…"
Does it? An 'economically advanced' society has the same basic priories as that of the poorer people. They still need food and clothing and shelter and love. All humans do, whether they are poor or the richest people in the world. The 'economically advanced' however have more money, so they spend it on things such as cars, new tvs…stuff that is looked upon as cool by the masses of society.
"I think this drastic difference between the priorities of those who focus on education and those who focus on survival in the midst of poverty contributes to the symbol of fences in the play we're reading. This is just one of the many walls between the upper and lower classes of society that separates us even more."
The priorities of humankind: poor, rich or aborigine are all the same. They have basic needs that they need met but they also need to be 'cool', to fit in with society. While the societies are undeniably different, the needs of people aren't. Everyone focuses on survival, if you aren't trying to live then what are you doing? We were made fight or flight, we have instincts that we avoid pain and dying as much as we can. Education is desired by everyone originally, but if we have bad experiences with the schooling system, then we are not likely to pay attention, and the street will become a bigger influence. If this happens, then teachers won't get as good educations and won't be able to teach as well, leading to a downward spiral.
In act one sense one in the Fences, Troy the main character is sitting on his pouch talking to his best friend Bono. It’s a Friday night, pay day for Troy from his crash collecting job. The two man sit there and talk about what is going on in there lives. I can relate to this because in the summer I find myself just hanging out with friends and talking about how life has been in the past. We also discuses what we are looking forward to what we want to do later on in are lives. Another thing I relate to in act one sense one is the part where Troy’s son comes over to see him and asks for money. I do this a lot to my parents. Although the talk they give me is not as bad as the talk Troy gave his son because he is 35; it is some what on the same line. That I only come around to see them when I want some cash for something. Witch is not true at all, because I see them every day.
When Troy is sitting on his porch that reminds me of my grandpa; when he spends most of his mornings on his porch drinking coffee and talking to his neighbors. I noticed that my grandpa and Troy talk about mainly the same stuff money, life, jobs, and women. My grandma would come out and hear what he is talking about when I am around and tell him to stop and that it is not right to talk that way to kids. His response is like oh would you relax he knows we are joking around. I don’t ask my grandparents for money like Troy son does to him. I leave the money asking to my parents.
in my view, I support the idea of school being more important. Why? simply because in comparison to going to school and not going to school, we see that education becomes a factor. Getting an education is simply important because it helps you open your mind and judgments to all the possibilities given to you for your future. Thus, having the ability to strive forward in your given choices, and living up to what you were given. An education.
NOW, I'm not saying that you need an education, I believe that it immensely increases the possibilities of being able to do things that help you live your life. But, without an education your not going to get very far in life and all those dreams, hopes, and choices you have for your future, will not ever come easy, because of the lack of education.
Regardless of who you are on the outside or inside, consider one thing that is overall the most important aspect of living life to its fullest. It's Working hard that is key, because the more you lack and become basically (lazy) you lose the oppertunities you wish you later in life could've had. Working hard helps lead your life into a better style of survival, meaning, your survival is always dependant upon how much you actually CARE, thus, I'm saying that 'the less you care, the less you recieve'.
Also, to add onto my other previous comment, In relativity to education, the mere fact that survival is important, is later in life, after education, after you've chosen what to do with your life, and mainly how to go about doing what you learned in school. the underlining message im am sending, is that, you learn, you teach and you help others around you, but you are still learning teaching, and helping yourself grow upon what you know and what the future brings into your life.
Interesting Mike.
Anyway here's my opinion on it all:
I agree with Mike with school being the greater source for education; probably for me more than others due to personal experience. Aside from preschool and kindergarten, I have been at Berwick Academy all my life. It is a great provider of education, and has kept me away from much life in the “streets.” But having been on the streets before I have experienced fear and judgment, and in some cases I regret if making others experience the same.
One thing the streets has done for me is provide me the realization that there will be a lot more encounters and experiences which will be worse, and teaches that you must be tougher and have the strength to get by. The only dilemma is that I can’t seem to find a reason why we must be rough to survive. Self defense obviously, but what drives us to need defense from others. Whether it’s hatred, judgment, or need, I don’t see why people automatically turn to violence to get what they desire. Perhaps it makes us feel more powerful or respected and once at that status we feel we need to be violent to keep it. As Jimi Hendrix once said, “when the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” So perhaps it is the pressure of surviving with power and respect which brings us to believe violence is the solution.
Although the education I receive from the street and Berwick vary immensely, they both teach the same thing.
Berwick is strictly designed to teach us about subjects that allow us to succeed and get to college. The classes with math, science, English, history etc. hopefully give us enough education to succeed if we take advantage of the opportunity. The ability to succeed makes it more likely to get further in life, and survive in generally a better situation than others. Although for me, I would like to succeed with a life in music which is not concentrated on as much as other subjects are. So sometimes I turn away from school when I feel the lack of education on music. But no matter what school is a major importance. As Mike said, “without an education your not going to get very far in life.” The only thing I disagree about this statement is that he is talking about school education. Speaking in the sense of survival, the street provides us education to do the same. The only difference is personally I have learned more from school.
I agree with you, Elizabeth. At Berwick, the majority of us have grown up in loving homes where we have been accepted and cared for. We haven't ever felt starvation and desperation for food, clothing, or shelter. Personally, I have never needed anything that wasn't given to me. In ghettos like Harlem, street smarts are more important because it is for survival. The children in school eventually lose the innocence of learning in the classroom. They begin to realize that the street will benefit them the most. The children are taught to be violent, even though their parents know it is wrong. The parents cannot help from stealing food or being violent out of boredom. It is a necessity to have food on the table, especially when you have children and families. "The neighborhood is omnipresent and more powerful than the classroom." This shows that the neighborhoods are violent and upsetting to many of their residents but they are not given a chance to work harder. The businesses that are in Harlem are run by the whites. However, at a point in all of our lives we must realize that our parents will not always take care of us. In order to become more independent, we have to learn street smarts. Although the knowledge we learn on the street may not be as vital to us as it is to people living in the ghettos, it is still something that we have to consider and learn. However, most of our parents will help us if we fall into a rough spot, they’ll comfort us and take us in even when we are adults. While many African American parents would love to do that, they are not able to. Therefore, this is why street smarts are so important to the children growing up in the ghettos. We may be able to follow or pursue our dreams but if for some reason they end up in shambles, we have our education to rely back on. The African Americans don’t have that stability because even if they do have a good education, a white man with the same amount of knowledge will usually get the job over him. Our parents from the beginning decide where and what we learn. They decide where we’ll go to school. However, African American families often have much more important things to decide. Parents have to provide for their children as a responsibility. It is not something that can be put on hold, just as they have to teach their children how to survive. Our pasts, present situations, and people around us inevitably mold us into a person. At a certain point, it is up to us to find a way to break down the fences being built closer and closer to ourselves.
I think that the significance of a classroom education versus that of one on the streets depends greatly on where you come from, your background, and the place where you grew up. I also think that the importance of these two types of education will change as you grow up and experience new things. Personally, I think a classroom education plays a bigger role for me. Where I live there isn’t as severe a problem of poverty and violence, therefore I haven’t had to learn what Jeffery Canada or his brothers had to learn on the streets of the Bronx. Canada’s survival depended on how well he was able to fend for himself on the streets, and this wasn’t something he was going to learn in a classroom. He writes that he “needed some clues on which (he) could build a theory of how to act” (p.6). He needed to know what to do in order to keep himself safe.
I was always told that an education was the best thing that could happen to you, and that it was the experience that was going to help get you to where you wanted to go, wherever that might be. Therefore, it always had to be near the very top of the priority list. I have never had to learn how to survive like Canada or his brothers did, and I believe that’s a tribute to the sheltered place in which I live. Focusing on school and preparing for a higher education have had played a bigger role for me than things I might have learned on the streets. The things you learn at school are taught by teachers that can nurture your interests and help you succeed. Canada had to learn himself and from his family things that were going to help him survive.
However once people from sheltered places and small towns pass into the borders of new places and new experiences, an education they received may no longer prove as useful. Their straight A’s in high school, their college diploma, or a PhD might not serve them well when they’re trying to defend themselves on the streets. This isn’t to say that an education isn’t extremely useful; as I said before, an education is an indispensable experience that will make achieving academic and professional goals much easier than if you didn’t have one. That being said, I couldn’t spend my entire life in the same place, and getting out there to new experiences and new places means learning things that aren’t taught in schools. How to survive- and this is not specific to the streets- is something that everyone must learn eventually.
The fence that Troy has partly put up in his yard acts as a symbolic way for him to keep things and to not except things. As we grew older in life and as people we learn to put are own fences up around us. Learning on what to let into are yard and what not to let in. Our parents and role models play a key part in this. When we are little we watch our parents to learn how to act and behave. As we grow old we start to experience life and problems that come along every day. The fence building starts when we learn well from bad and learn for our self what we like and don’t like. Some fence may be built then taken down because you found out you actually like something. Then the fence will be rebuilt and maybe even removed again only to be rebuilt once again.
Growing up plays a big role on how you act in life. If you hang out with drug users odds are you’re mostly like to be one yourself. Live about finding a place where your happy and enjoy life, but to get there you must go throw some hard times as well. As these experiences happen to us we learn to make a fence from the good and bad things that come alone in life. Like I said before fences can be taken down and rebuilt many times before you know if you like it there or not. This can be caused by the that happen to use as we grow older or just meet know people. Weather you know it or not every person you meet has an impact on your life. It can be a good one or a bad one. The fences just play as a guide line in life you can take it down and move it or you can stay inside of yours and just do nothing to it at all.
Mitch, I do agree with you that it's important to learn how to sustain yourself, and your shelter and food supply, but these are already given to upper class citizens as soon as they're born into rich society. Then, the most important aspect of survival that they must focus on is education, because that will better determine their success in life than learning how to defend themselves on the street. If they don't succeed in getting a good education and are eventually forced to live on the street or in a very poor neighborhood, then their top priority would be learning how to survive in that situation, by education themselves on physical defense. But since those fo higher financial status are already born into a completely different environment than poorer people, they must focus on education to sustain themselves. Family wealth also partially helps them, and even though they'd have to learn how to earn their own money and provide themselves with shelter and food like everyone else, they wouldn't be able to do this without education. For poorer society, education doesn't matter. It doesn't help their survival; becoming street smart does. The "big stick" that rich society carries refers to education, which is their weapon for survival. Poor society's weapon is their education on the street.
When I say different priorities, I mean different priorities for our means of survival. Ultimately all people have the same goal: to survive. But economically advanced society's method of reaching this goal is education; poor sections of America must focus on how to compete against other people on the street to stay alive. In that way, our priorities are different. Or rather, our methods of reaching our goals are different. I'm not talking about cars or TVs or materialistic things like that... I'm strictly talking about school education versus street education, and that's where the drastic difference between the two societies resides. All humans share the instinct for survival, but it is our means of gaining that goal that wall the upper class from the lower class and vice versa. It's exactly like what Harrington was talking about when he wrote, "the neighborhood is omnipresent and more powerful than the classroom" for poverty-stricken society.
Both the classroom and the street are powerful influences in my life, but the importance of their teachings will appear at different times. Today, the things I learn in the classroom are more influencing and seem to have greater importance than things that I would learn on the street. In school today, I am constantly influenced by my friends, my teachers and my parents. My friends teach me to be more outgoing and social while teachers are able to teach me to stretch my mind and constantly think about the significance of lessons. Through school, I constantly push myself in order to obtain goals that are helped set by teachers as well. My parents however are one of the biggest influences I have for my school and athletics. My parents push me very hard to do my best and want me to make the most of my education, which is a good thing because I have those same goals. Though I can make my own choices, my parents are the biggest people in my life that help me determine my actions and where I learn. My parents would strongly encourage me to learn in school and not “on the street,” however knowledge of the street can help me later on in the future and ultimately it is up to me to decide which is a more powerful force in my life and which one I should learn from.
Though at the moment the classroom is a larger influence in my life than the street is, I feel that I should learn things from the street in order to lead a well balanced life. Being in a private school, I feel I am sheltered from what the real world is really like. Nothing very dramatic or horrible seems to happen in private school like in public school. In public school there can be drinking, pregnancies, fights, and people that don’t seem to care about education or the feelings of others. In private school, we all deeply care for each other, have great personalities and obviously care for a good education. However, as I said, we do not know the real world is really like because we are in these perfect communities. I know when I get older, I will not really be prepared for violence I may see, the unfairness of some people or their total lack of concern for their education or their future. Though a great education from school will help me get into college and get a good job, I will not know some important necessities that I would have if I had learned some street skills in public school. The street would teach me the reality of the world and the people living in it while the classroom provides great protection and can help ensure me a good future. Both of these abilities are great forces, one being of great importance now and the other being of importance later on in the future.
Trestan, I think brought a good thought to my mind, I focus on Education, more or less, because it is the ONE important aspect of school that I care very highly about, and yet because I care more about where I end up after my school education, brought me to the conclusion of what I didn't discuss at all in my opinion about the streets. Now, me having a passion for Science has since 8th grades sparked an interest that led me to want to continue study in astronomy. This leads me into saying that one, school was a part of the influence put on me, credited towards Mr. Knight and his science class. Now, because I didn't think about it until now, NASA and several different organizations of Science are what influence me outside of school, and with that, it has actually taken an enormous leap into my life more than School Science can. I continue to rely on reaching out and taking in account that I want to go beyond high school knowledge because I want to increase my understanding of the things I love about science (astronomy). I use Science as an Example because, even just a few years ago, I began to love science and as I answer this question, an education is key for me, because it will help me go to the length that I intend to reach in the near future.
To the extent of my first writings, this comment may seem contradictory in every sense that many of you will read it, yet, look at it twice if you have to, because I still stand by, the education, because Mr. Knight increased my love for Science, and he lead me into personally continuing my own desire to learn more. This is not a contradictory statement, it is simply an unrealized opinion about even the most important part of what I personally want to do with my life. Because of this, not only does it say that I support 'street' influence immensely, but I believe that school leads you into the direction where you have to think and choose for yourself.
I find it true at least in my opinion that the education from school is much greater than the education from the streets and helps us get to where we want in life. Education acts as a bridge crossing over the gorge of poverty bringing you to success in the higher life. Those who fail to find it find themselves in the bottom of society on the streets fighting to climb out.
I think that you have to define your passions to find out who you are, and once you do that you can decide what you want to be educated in and learn more about. You may inherit your beliefs from school or family, or you may turn away and truly find out who you are. In this sense perhaps school doesn’t provide you with the education you long for so you turn away from it. I agree with Mike that for me school has been the greater influence on me; much thanks to Mr. Harding for introducing me to guitar and a good part of my taste in music.
The streets fail to provide me with such education.
I do still think that all education leads to surviving in a better life, but I think it greatly depends on what you want to succeed in. You have to first go, as mike said, “into the direction where you have to think and choose for yourself.” From there you can decide what education is needed for you and where to find it. For example, Mike obviously owes great thanks to school. But there are those who find the streets to provide them with what they want. Perhaps their view of the high life is different than the mainstream of society which finds success after passing through school. For example, my little brother and I have opposite beliefs, partly because I believe he is too young to fully understand where he wants to go in life. Anyway, he wants to go in the army. He has the opportunity to go to school, he is not being drafted (obviously), but his interests lay in the army. School, at least Berwick Academy, does not provide this. Those who find what they want in the streets could greatly debate against my opinion on everything, but I find that portion of people failed to find the bridge of education and instead dig a tunnel into their own personal high life.
Mike, something you said again: “Education is key.” This is true, but just remember that the streets provide us with education as well. Perhaps living on the streets do benefit for those who would like to go to the army. It would give them education and experience of how to survive and have strength. It all depends on where you want to go in life and what you want to do.
To touch upon a few things, Elizabeth, you say that basically things/possessions are given to you in your life right from the start and that you don’t lose that sense of comfort when you continue to get older because you are PART of the upper class of society anyway. Now, to still argue against Mitch, you said the same previous things, saying:
“Mitch, I do agree with you that it's important to learn how to sustain yourself, and your shelter and food supply, but these are already given to upper class citizens as soon as they're born into rich society.”
I don’t agree with the fact that you continued to say that people will always have these things/possessions or even wealth. I myself had an older sibling(sister) go down into basically the “poverty stricken” area of society, and that was based upon her choices. She went through school, just like we are; she got her college education, and yet now she can barely support herself with her family. Now, I’m not going to say that you are wrong, but I can tell you that from my perspective, CHOICE means everything. (I’m not extrapolating on this because personal and private matters are disclosed and so I’m not going to make matter difficult by explaining myself further ((about my sister))
Secondly, you argued back towards Mitch saying:
Then, the most important aspect of survival that they must focus on is education, because that will better determine their success in life than learning how to defend themselves on the street. If they don't succeed in getting a good education and are eventually forced to live on the street or in a very poor neighborhood, then their top priority would be learning how to survive in that situation, by education themselves on physical defense.
Survival and Self Defense are never irrelevant to each other, since you mentioned that defending yourself is not as important as being successful in life. Now, all I really need to say to this is ***ABSOLUTLY NOT***, but I choose to tell you why or at least make you think about what you had said. I don’t want to get a bit harsh on the subject, but just from your opinion, I want you to think about someone at random, just a stranger. Your watching him/o/her walk down a sidewalk in a quite yet surrounded city and everything’s fine, but then…what?!?!? He or she is now held up at gunpoint. You don’t know why, but for what reason, how, why, he/o/she can’t get out of this, he or she doesn’t know what to do, he/o/she can’t fight. Doesn’t know how…………… (Back to my point) If you ever get held up at gunpoint, you need the skills and understandings of how to get out of that kind of situation. Also, if you don’t know how to help yourself in those situations, you lose your sense of safety and trust in the environment that you are surrounded by.
I believe that whether the street or the classroom is a bigger influence on ones life depends on many things. Aspects such as the people that surround one and the places that one lives greatly affect whether the streets or the classroom wins out. I believe that the streets play a bigger role in the lives of those who aren’t surrounded by people that care about them, and who don’t have access to a good education. People who don’t have these things don’t really have much of a choice but to learn from the streets, because they don’t have anywhere else to learn from. For me personally the classroom has influenced me greater than the street. Because I have been at Berwick since first grade, I feel I’ve never really experienced life on the streets. Instead I have lived most of my life within the campus of Berwick, while being surrounded by the same people everyday. These people, my friends, my peers, and my teachers, have literally made me the person I am today. One certain teacher changed my life as well as my education for the better. I learned many things from her, such as to not take myself so seriously. She impacted my life so much that at times I have considered becoming a teacher so that I might have the same impact on someone else’s life. My friends and my classmates have also been a huge part of my life. A lot of them I have known since I started at Berwick, and have been a big part of my education. We have grown up together, and I’m looking forward to continuing high school with them as well as with new students who will join us. Also at Berwick I have received a great education. I believe that because Berwick has high academic standards I have developed a good work ethic as well as other skills that will help me in my future education. Because of all of these factors I know that the classroom has been a greater impact on my life than the streets have.
I just became really confused, so I’m not sure who I’m about to agree/disagree with. Maybe it’s something different. But, in the case of defense verses success, I agree (I think) with Mike that defense is very necessary; even with success through education. For example, reading this conversation reminded me particularly of the one and only Beatles. All four grew up in nothing greater than the working class of Liverpool, and only one of them actually went to college (John Lennon, to the Liverpool Art College which he dropped out of anyway). They were still able to make it the (words of John Lennon) “toppermost of the poppermost.”
Before the absolute mania hit they were touring Hamburg and often got into fights; the most memorable is when John broke his arm DEFENDING his longtime friend Stuart Sutcliff who later sadly DIED FROM THE INJURY. That’s just one of many examples of being educating (at least musically) and being successful but STILL needing protection. Because I know too much about the Beatles, they make for more examples. Later the Beatles monster success came with death threats and of course the mobs of thousands of fans which they needed defense for. Without their bodyguards (Mal Evans, Neil Aspinall, and temporarily Horst Fascher) they would’ve been lost to the crowd or mobs of fans. Even with bodyguards George Harrison got a black eye from an angered fan and Ringo got his shirt torn off.
Being at the height of success doesn’t automatically bring defense and save you from the lower ones. Later John would die from an insane fan, and although it was unfair considering he had a Charter Arms .379 revolver and John had nothing, it goes to show there was no protection even though he had education from experience. And George, even with an alarm system was stabbed by an enraged fan. He though luckily survived though. So these examples go to show maybe success at a certain level as that requires defense.
And just something else to put out there- there are people who find success through defense such as bodyguards.
The fact that American society is split in two when it comes to the way certain people learn is something that has always and in my opinion always will remain this way. These two learning environments are of course the streets and the schools. For every single American it is essential to learn the ways of one of these backgrounds in order to succeed or survive in life. I choose succeed and survive carefully because I believe that one succeeds in school but survives in the streets. I speak not only for myself but for most if not all students of Berwick Academy that school is their path to success, not the streets. However, in other such places, school may not be a form of success, so they must look towards other means of life. This is where the streets play such a large role. The streets provide these people survival, just as Berwick Academy paves a road towards success for me. After reading The Other America, I see that had I grown up and lived in another part of the country, I would not be the same person I am today. I could very well be living in the city and living by means of survival in the streets, and therefore I am very fortunate for being able to grow up and learn in such a safe and comfortable community. In my opinion there are two important swaying factors in how children are to learn. These two factors come from their parents and their environment. I believe that the streets can be a much more swaying environment for kids than their parents. So in turn, it is not always a “who” that decides where you are to learn, but often a place or a “where”.
Although this may seem rather different from the way people in this area live, the omnipresence of children hanging around in the neighborhood is almost like a transformation that most kids pass thorough in cities. As they get older, they realize that they are more comfortable and more able to survive in the streets rather than make it in school. It simply becomes easier for them to live in the streets rather than to start a life through education. As written by Harrington in The Other America: “perhaps the most shocking statistic in all this is the one that describes what happens when a negro does acquire skill and training…the more education a Negro has, the more economic discrimination he faces”(77). Simply put, African-Americans face more trouble and discrimination in an economic profession opposed to manual labor in the streets.
Mike, I think you are missing Elizabeth’s point (or at least how I interpret it). I think she is saying that when your born into an upper class family, you are fortunate enough to be in the position where your parents will provide for you 100% until you start living on your own. In that sense food, shelter, and in our case excellent educations are just given to us. You don’t have to fight for it and you don’t have to get a job to pay for basic necessities. This way you can focus on learning as much as you can so you can get a job and greatly improve your chances of survival. That is almost entirely dependant on whether or not you can get an education, which IS given to members of the upper class. So in a sense we’re just lucky to be born with more opportunities. From that point on, you are correct, necessities are no longer guaranteed. However chances are ridiculously good that, because they were previously a given, we will be able to get those necessities ourselves.
In 2006 (that’s the most recent data I could find) http://www.morganquitno.com/dang06.htmb, which is a site that ranks states annually by their crime rate, found that Maine had the 49th lowest crime rate and new Hampshire had the 47th lowest crime rate. There is a more of a chance that we’ll have to try and get a job to survive than learn to defend ourselves to survive. You say that it’s important to know what to do if a gun is pointed at you, and I agree that it’s probably an interesting thing to learn. However I think it is more important to learn about things you’re almost positively going to have to deal with than something there is very little chance of having to deal with. All I’m saying is that the chances of being held at gunpoint are slim; the chances that you’ll one day have to use some things you learned from school in a job are much higher
And just one last thing
You said that “survival is always dependant upon how much you actually CARE”. I find that to be contradictory to nearly every thing we’ve read so far this quarter and in past quarters as well. Even if you don’t see it in our reading just think about it logically. Everyone wants to live; it’s a basic human instinct. Saying that only people who want and try to live is a highly inaccurate statement. Are you trying to say that the people who die of starvation don’t CARE about eating? Or that people who freeze at night because they can’t afforded heat or even a house don’t CARE? Just because you work hard to understand something in class or work hard to get a good grade doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get what you want. Hard work and care do not equal success.
(I hope you know that this is all said with the utmost respect, I think several of your ideas have very valid points. I just wanted to let you know I respect them even If it doesn’t really sound like it…)
An epigraph is a quote at the beginning of a book or document that establishes the dominant theme. Slavery was the epigraph for the role of blacks in America. They have continued to live “under” us in our predominantly white world. Even if they get jobs they are still most likely to be working for a white male. We, as a primarily white population have created this situation. We take for granted the fact that we are able to carve out our own lives whereas we have already marred the sculpture that was meant to be carved and created by black culture. The marks we have made cannot be erased. We have made black culture the way that it is through our actions throughout history. Yet we still find fault with something that was almost solely our creation. We don’t even know how to say sorry about our treatment of blacks and have it actually mean something and maybe even change something. From the very beginning we are taught that everyone is equal no matter their skin colors. That people like Dr. King fought for that equality and that it is very important. So why do we forget that. When we grow out of the blissful innocence of childhood it seems as if the general population sees the truth lying beneath. As their parents were taught before them they learn that despite the fact that there are no concrete laws for segregation the separation between blacks and whites and the differences in their culture and opportunities becomes clear.
As a culture that created this system of class we have in turn caused the importance of their street education. The violence especially emphasizes the need for street smarts. It is critical for everyone to be able to survive. For those who live in a hard area like a ghetto that has much more to do with fighting and violence. For us, the affluent approximate 10% of students in private school that type of education doesn’t even show a blip on our radar. For us in New England, where there is a severe lack of minority, our survival relies on our schooling. We are taught that our way to make it in the world is to do well in school and we will be able to make a good life for ourselves. As private school students who aren’t suffering from extreme poverty and violence in and around our home we are unable to understand what it takes for them. We have never lived in a ghetto and realized that if stealing is what it takes to survive than that is what you have to do, no questions asked. It no longer becomes the question of what is right and wrong but what you have to do to protect your own. I can never expect to understand a life like that and I don't think any of us can because we are white. We will always have a certain degree of security because of our race. I believe that every kid on the earth no matter what their race has the right to make their academic education what judges their survival. If everyone were getting the education that we are just imagine the differences there would be in the world. There are so many places we could start to try to change the fate of the minority but I believe that the most effective would be in their education.
education vs. "street smarts"
One’s surroundings and lifestyle determine if you need an education or “street smarts” to succeed. In my life I have everything needed for survival handed to me by my parents; I am provided with clothing, food, and shelter. With these necessities for living given to me, I don’t need to be able to provide for myself which makes “street smarts” a small part of what I need to survive and to succeed. What does greatly impact my life is education. Education is a big and important part of what is needed for me to succeed. By getting a good education early in life I will have an easier time later. Education will lead me to a good college and therefore a good job. However, as I grow older I think that the factors of what impacts my life will change. When I am an adult I won’t have my parents there to provide for me; I will need to use “street smarts” to survive and provide for myself. If I haven’t learned “street smarts” when I was young then I wouldn’t know how to survive on my own, so I think that even though I might not use “street smarts” when I am young I should still learn them because they will benefit me when I am an adult. Also the importance of education will decrease because I will already have a job and won’t need to be learning more. It would be a good thing to be smart, but I won’t need to use what I have learned in school in everyday life anymore. But this is only me and for my life, everyone lives under unique circumstances witch make either education or “street smarts” more important. I think most of the people at Berwick Academy would be like this too and use education more when they are growing up. People that we are reading about in “Fences” must learn “street smarts” in order for survival. Having “street smarts” or education impacting your life more are not set in stone and they can change throughout the course of your life.
I think any education you learn at any time or place has equal impact, but it depends on the individual and environment. In places that don’t have the chance of being a good community, I think that education on the streets play a bigger role. Since some people don’t benefit in living in a good community with people that care about them, they will have to learn to be street smart in order to survive.
I think that for me education in a classroom is more important at the time. Being raised in a nice neighborhood and having the opportunity to go to Berwick Academy for such a long time, I have never really experienced life on the streets. Since there hasn’t been any poverty or violence for me to deal with I haven’t had to chance to realize how others that are less fortunate might live. My friends and teachers that I see everyday shape my life and have a great impact on the person that I am today. Having these people care about me I have been able to grow and develop into becoming a nice person. By these people on my side, they have taught me that education is the most important thing. I agree that it is very important that I get a good education, but that doesn’t mean I should push aside learning to be street smart.
Even though at this time classroom education is more important to me, I shouldn’t forget about education on the streets. I am not always going to be living in the same neighborhood or always going to be going to Berwick Academy. One day I might end up finding myself in a situation in a place and not knowing how to deal with it. Since I have always grown up in a sheltered area I feel I have never actually had the experience of being street smart. I have always had my parents to protect and my friends to turn to if I had problems to deal with knowing they would always help me. This is not true for people who don’t have the opportunity to growing up in a sheltered place and so they have to learn to be street smart. I think that it is important that I get and education from school, but also education on the streets. These can both can benefit me in the future when I am an adult.
I fully think that it depends on your surroundings, if you live if you live in Harlem and the knowledge of the street is the only way to survive, than it will be most valuable.. But for me, I think that the classroom is more effective and it may trump the knowledge that you get form the street. By going to school and learning all of the basics your possibilities are endless, and there are millions of professions that you could fallow. When going to school you learn about your passions and what you would like to spend the rest of your life doing. When learning how just to survive you don’t live life to the f ullest. You just go from paycheck to paycheck hoping that you will survive. In order to fulfill your dreams you need to go to school and learn the basics of that dream in order to have a career. I know that the knowledge from the street can be helpful at times when you fail in school and it is nice to have that backbone when you fall, but I order to have a proficient career and to succeed you need to have that education from the classroom. When learning about everything in high schools you find your likes and dislikes and what you are passionate about enough to make it your fulltime career. But with the knowledge of the street you pick the career that is easiest and will get you through the day. If you are in the position when you are desperate for money and have no means to get it the knowledge from the street is very powerful. But in order to get a well-paying job that will give you a successful life and will fulfill your dreams, the education from the classroom is most valuable to me.
In our lives today I believe that education is more important than being street smart. When you become street smart you learn how to survive, but when you become educated you open up more doors and opportunities for you in life. Formal education is more important because when you grow up you will be able to do things in life that you have always wanted to do. You can only achieve your goals if you work hard. If you just sit home all day and don’t do anything that is productive you are wasting opportunities that are available to you. You could spend your time learning about things that interest you that you want to do for a career. By being street smart means that you may know how to make life saving decisions on the fly. If you are really street smart then you may be able to survive, but opportunities such as being a lawyer or doctor will not be achievable. To tear down the educational barrier that the ghetto has built, the African American society will need to turn their backs on some of the main parts of their culture. The barriers that would need to be torn down would consist of drug overuse, not having a family that looks out for you, and gang fighting. The people who have families would have to look out for each other, and the people who don’t have families would have to go to the boys and girls clubs so they could stay out of trouble. The education of the people is more important than the street culture. If the people in the ghetto could give up some of the destructive behavior and have a strong desire for higher education, maybe the ghetto wouldn’t be such a bad place to live. The people of the ghetto just have to tear down the fences of temptation and put up the fences of a strong goodwill and desire to do the right thing at the right time.
Katie- I think I’m on Mike’s side for this. You can be born into a wealthy upper class family but that does not ever guarantee you will be 100% supported by your parents. I really disagree with you saying education “IS given to members of the upper class.” I have to say, absolutely not. Personally, if my parents didn’t have to pay for me and my brother going to Berwick we would probably be a lot wealthier and in the upper class. Education comes with a price. You sound as if you are saying that higher class people AUTOMATICALLY receive a greater education and the working class gets none. The working class, keep in mind, learns from the streets. And even when you move out after school it does NOT make you still wealthy and successful. You have to work to maintain it.
There are so very many ways you can loss your wealth such as: debt, theft, gambling, becoming addicted to drugs, natural disasters, and many more. Though a good number of threats are found on the streets, being born in an upper class family does not keep you away from the streets; that would be isolation. You may very well have to fight for your well being. I find it that the richer and more successful you are the more likely you will get robbed or held at gunpoint. You don’t see many homeless people at gunpoint; you see them holding the gun.
And let’s not forget natural disasters. There are many upper class citizens who lose everything because of them; such as the result of hurricane Katrina.
To be honest, I don’t really care for the statistics. That’s in TWO STATES. There is more than the world than two states. You have to think about more than just our lives. And you are just like forgetting about gunpoint. My mom always tells me “you should start karate to defend yourself.” I had taken it at one point and quit once I felt confident enough to. Wouldn’t you feel safe if you knew how to protect yourself from gunpoint? Two of my cousins we’re just shipped to Iraq as marines. I still worry about them because obviously in Iraq the crime rate is greater than two states in the U.S. They were born into the upper class, but I’m pretty sure you need protection at war. So anyway, you can’t just forget about being held at gunpoint or bankruptcy. It’s like having a car but not caring about car insurance because you have all wheel drive. You can’t forget about the whether and reckless drivers.
And for the issue of care, I think he means you obviously have to care about surviving to survive. Those who are homeless could have been upper class citizens by birth; but they could’ve avoided the opportunity and right decisions to maintain it. He’s not saying that it is automatic you will survive if you care. He’s saying (at least I think) that if you didn’t care about surviving you wouldn’t. If you didn’t want to live, you don’t have to. Back to the issue of choice and choosing what you want to do and where you want to go in life. You can choose to screw life all together. Hopefully most people don’t, but it is an option. I find you being a little hypocritical by saying “Hard work and care do not equal success.” The harder you work the more successful you become, right? I know you can work and work but fail to succeed, but it’s likely you will. I don’t mean to sound contradictory by saying that, but what I’m saying is that you don’t automatically fall into success by being in the upper class; you have to strive for it, work and care. It’s true it doesn’t automatically bring you to success, but I think it’s more likely than automatically inheriting wealth and success as I think you are saying.
And not to start another debate but Eliza to touch upon something- I HIGHLY disagree with what you said here: “stealing is what it takes to survive than that is what you have to do, no questions asked. It no longer becomes the question of what is right and wrong but what you have to do to protect your own.” You sound as if you’re saying anyone who lives in the ghetto has lost their morals and have no care. There is always a right and wrong, no matter who you are or what situation you are in. There’s this awful place called JAIL for the law breakers. And guess what, there are people who don’t live in the ghetto that end up in jail. It’s true that they may feel more pressured to hold someone at gunpoint due to disparity but they do not do it AUTOMATICALLY. I feel too many people categorize these things automatically. But I will continue this debate separately.
I think it safe to assume that the more powerful force for Berwick Academy students is school. No one really has to put up with living in the ghetto, dealing with violence, murders, drug dealing, gang violence, or any type of stereotypical ghetto life. Everyone seems to be home by 6 after sport practices, rehearsals, or extra help from teachers. We go home, eat dinner, do homework, work on projects, study, maybe watch TV for a little while, and then sleep. We do the same thing the next day. Our days revolve around school. Even our free time on the weekend is eaten up by school work. We are the opposite of what Harrington wrote about. The omnipresent force in our lives is school.
The streets teach us how to survive in life and how to live in our communities.
Though these lessons might not be about using violence or knowing how to fight like Harrington was referring to, but these lessons are still valuable. Harrington writes more about having to fight to survive but we learn more about dealing with family problems, dealing with friends and other people. School teaches us knowledge we’ll use later to get into college, graduate from college, and make our way though various careers.
I would say that our communities determine where were learn the most. Our communities aren’t violent or full of crime but are more focused on “children are the future” and being eco-friendly. We spend more time going to school than fighting on the streets. Our lives and the adults running our lives care more about our futures and the worlds future. They send us to school so we can lead the world and by sending us all these messages that we’re the future, makes our schooling the most important things in our lives.
The blame for racism seems to be pushed around as a defense mechanism for the employers and ultimately the whites. Eventually the blame fell back to the blacks because they are “lazy” and wont work. In most cases this is not true. They couldn’t find any jobs out of the ghettos so they were forced to slip into poverty. Even today the blacks make up the majority of the population in cities and ghettos. I don’t think this is because people won’t hire them. I believe this is because they still don’t fully trust all white people. They are constantly reminded of their tragic past because they live where their ancestors lived. I think that they can’t find away to get out of the ghettos so they turn to the streets for support and money. They fell as though the streets are the only way for them to be anything even if it’s just in their community when really the only way to succeed is to stay in school and get an education because the country has turned away from semi skilled trades and replaced them with computers.
I think that the only way to solve this problem is to extensively change the schooling system in the cities. The schools need to be better funded and supplied so that an equal education is provided to all children, poor or rich. Even if the schools were better supplied there is nothing to say that kids still won’t drop out. As the old saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.” If there was an apparent incentive to stay in school I believe that more people would and the graduation rate would increase. College should be made more easily available to more people by offering better financial aid for the poor a less fortunate. With the schooling changed they would have more opportunities to work in better paying jobs.
Even with an education it is still hard to find a job. I believe that if there were more services to help find jobs for these people the prospect of getting a good job could become a reality. Once these people have jobs then they will give others in the ghettos hope that they too could get out of the vicious circle that is poverty. Only when the economic and social playing fields are level will true equality be gained.
Having the opportunity to attend Berwick Academy has allowed me to experience the schoolroom teachings at a much greater level than most. Most of my hometown friends cannot experience the same education that I am currently receiving, so some of their education will have to rely on street education.
I think that it would be an interesting study to compare where they are in 10 years compared to where I am. Some can argue that an education in the classroom can be more beneficial vs. an education on the street. To me an education in a classroom will better shape your career in the future. Generally speaking, if you maintain your grades and pay attention in school it will prepare you for college and that is where you can sculpt your career. Once done college you can pick a job and live the rest of your life happily ever after.
I have heard little to no truly, truly successful people who have just had an education from the streets. I am not arguing that if that type of knowledge can’t benefit you, but you will likely not follow the same career path as one that has received an education from high school and college.
Ideally it is your parents that would rather see a school education vs. a street. I know that in my house that is what is heavily preferred and probable for both my brother and myself. Now, if a regular school education isn’t available then that’s where people can learn from other knowledgeable and try to succeed. On the street is where such life lessons as violence can be learned. Like the case of Canada, he learned the harsh realities of violence when he was just a kid, and that helped sculpt what he wanted his profession to be as an adult.
Okay, I couldn’t restrain myself. First of all Eliza, I don’t see why “violence especially emphasizes the need for street smarts. It is critical for everyone to be able to survive.” Why we turn to violence will forever bug me.
I disagree with how you said “For us in New England…our survival relies on our schooling.” Not at all do I find this true. If you talk about education, I would agree more but still disagree. Because many people who lack education find success (such as the Beatles of course). I also disagree with how you state that “We are taught that our way to make it in the world is to do well in school and we will be able to make a good life for ourselves.” Not just through school, but education; again, too many people speak in general terms which drive me crazy, or at least crazier.
But the thing that I disagree with the most is when you say: “in a ghetto …stealing is what it takes to survive…that is what you have to do, no questions asked.” NOT TRUE AT ALL. People in the ghetto do have a sense of good and bad, they make their own decisions and choices which they know are wrong. They don’t automatically turn towards the bad. Not at all. That’s like saying all drunken people drive and crash. First of all they don’t always, but there is a chance. They choose to get in the wheel and drive, knowing the risks and possible results. Another example of how working class people in the streets don’t turn to violence- the Beatles. They were all born into working class Liverpool at best (Ringo had it worse). Sure they got into fights to defend themselves, but they lived on the streets and definitely did not turn to violence to get what they want. They WORKED, CARED and STRIVED for what they longed for –success. They sure could’ve been pressured to steal as many people are, but they made the right CHOICE and look what happened. As I said before, there is always a right and wrong which everyone recognizes and CHOOSES. Back to the issue of choice vs. inheritance, they could greatly inherit how they act from family and surroundings, but they always have the choice whether or not to act in a bad manner even if their parents and surroundings do. By saying violence or stealing is mandatory to survive is saying they don’t have a choice which is ridiculous. Sometimes people may not realize there is a choice, but they can always choose not to get behind the wheel. I don’t think right and wrong should ever come after survival.
Another thing, you act like all white people are wealthy and successful when you say “I can never expect to understand a life like that and I don't think any of us can because we are white.” It sounds quite racist in my view. There are many white people in the ghetto, and many black people who are successful; such as athletes and musicians. For example, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Randy Moss, Louis Armstrong, Chuck Berry, Billy Preston, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye and many more. I know they understand the successful lifestyle, and I’m sure that there are many poverty stricken whites who understand the ghetto lifestyle. I don’t want to bring race into this but we are generalizing too much and I don’t like to generally speak. Overall we can always choose to learn about lifestyles, even if we can’t live them.
I do agree with you Trestan very much about what he said. I won't exstrapolate on the ideas and points he argued because I agree with him. NOW Katie, from everything I previously read about what you said, you blew everything out of proportion. I understand full well where she stands on this issue and I also am not "missing Eliabeth's point". The most ideas and concepts of what I've seen out of everyone's views are (we are more fortunate they the lower class). THAT IS NOTHING TO EASY TO SAY AND BE ABLE TO SLIP BY. THAT IS WAY TO GENERAL, you don't know how other people feel, you can't say that they think they are less fortunate. The fact that you bring statistics into this is plainly weakening your stance on what you’re arguing about what I said to Elizabeth.
Trestan said:
"To be honest, I don’t really care for the statistics. That’s in TWO STATES. There is more than the world than two states. You have to think about more than just our lives."
I personally love reading this statement. (Not to be negative but,) He said that the statistics you gave were for TWO states, Now, I already knew that New Hampshire and Maine were very low crime rates. By now, because of you bringing statistics into the equation all I have to tell you is that you are thinking way out of the box. Statistics don't help you one bit to be able to understand personal looks on things. Plus, the one thing I brought up in my previous comment were simply examples of simulating a point in time where self defense is needed under ALL CONDITIONS.
"Saying that only people who want and try to live is a highly inaccurate statement. Are you trying to say that the people who die of starvation don’t CARE about eating? Or that people who freeze at night because they can’t afford heat or even a house don’t CARE?" This is a comment you made, trying to generalize what I meant by the level of how you care. Now, this “is a highly inaccurate statement.” I personally don’t know where you got those ideas from, but I can tell you that if you thought that I was saying they don’t care, you were way off. CARING is everything, CARING drives everything you live for. I could say to you, ‘why do grades matter to you so much’ and usually kids would say ‘because I CARE about what I get on my report card’ (or something around that) (1 simulation, example). Now, just to argue what you said and to also make you think on a personal level, (you don’t have to answer back if you wish not to) but, I want you to think and btw this isn’t part of the argument to the extent that I’m being inaccurate to my own statements. Why do you go to school, do you really care about working hard that much?-- Why are you complaining about a C+ and yet people on the streets don’t even go to school.
You can’t generalize things ever if you don’t know personally how others in that position feel and own up to where they are in their lives.
Throughout my life, I have been taught that education is one of the most, if not the most important aspects to survival. Where I live, one must be educated in order to sustain a well paying job, and to function in society. Those without a college degree are forced to pick up the slack left by those who were fortunate enough to receive an education. Without an education, I would be left at the mercy of society, and be faced with many problems in order to keep my life afloat. But elsewhere, education is not as important as it is here. In the ghetto, and Canada writes, people who were educated were not given the opportunity to use this education. This created a problem where the only way out was for everyone to receive an education, but many don’t see the point, for they see that once they finish their hard labor, they wouldn’t be able to use their knowledge. Not only does this create a crisis, but also educational funding does as well. I was fortunate to receive competent teachers and useful materials my entire life, but many do not receive these. Some children enter the classroom only to find teachers who don’t care, and books that are of no use. This discourages them and creates a cycle where after discovering the incompetence of their school, they would give up and find other ways to survive in life. Without education, a large part of the world is falling behind. Many people will never receive the education that they need to advance to the society that we reside in, and will be forced to continue their lives on the street.
I think that education and the 'street' are both very powerful forces in anyones life. On the streets you learn lessons that you would not find in your classroom. These lessons can be anything from violence to stealing. I think that the lessons you learn on the street are something you have to experience and live through. As the events that happen on the streets may be hard, they are an experience that can help sculp your career in the future. As most of the events on the street may be violent and some children learn violence at a younger age than others, I believe that it is good that someone experiences some sort of violence at some point. Not to say that I want someone to be killed or badly injured, but to experiences it helps you to become a stronger person in a different way. In a classroom you learn great things that help you develop into a greater person and prepare you for your job in the future. You experence a challenge in school that shows you a lesson that you must work hard if you want something and want to get something out of what you are doing. I believe that the classroom and the street are of equal forces. You learn great things from both of these forces that you can take with you forever. No one determines where you should learn, you decide where you want to learn and how you want to learn from it. Both of theses forces will teach you something whether it is in a a seat of a classroom or a dark alley way of a street.
For me the point of life is to just live as happily as one possibly can. Being able to accomplish something in life, that changes at least one person, that’s all I need, for the better, and I will be okay with death. I will face death and know that I left some of myself behind me, and I influenced someone positively. Learning how to do those things is a struggle for me. I don’t feel I learn how to do these things in school, in classes, however many of my peers bring me closer. It is a combination of my peers and what I learn outside of school that brings me closer to achieving complete satisfaction. Some of the most beautiful things I have ever heard have come from my peers mouths, and students that are older. People with the same viewpoints on life as me usually are the ones to say something that connects in my mind with a deeply complex, while still beautiful in its simplicity, meaning. Outside of school, I feel is what teaches me to live happily and freely. It is the little things that happen in the world not in classrooms specifically made for history, science, math, english, languages and study halls. Appreciation brings me closer to my satisfaction and just sitting and appreciating the sky, something that surrounds us everyday, and is so overlooked, it is so amazing. It gives me a safe sense of hope to see that there are still things in the world without conflicts, that are still peaceful. I learn this appreciation outside of classrooms. I live for music, which I gain knowledge about outside of the classroom and from my peers. In the end, I would like to have influenced through music, knowing I accomplished the only thing I ever needed to in life, through something I love. Life is often called short, but that is because we don’t think about our time. We have a lot of time to do the things we need to, we just don’t do it until, “later”. We say we will do something, but we can never trust those statements until they are being done. I think I have enough time to accomplish what I want in life, I think I have the things I need as well. I work, and it is a struggle, and I do things that I think make me closer to this satisfaction. I will not die before hit the point of life I search for, and I know when it happens I will be able to let go of everything, and not be scared of death, but rather think of it as another adventure and challenge for me to take.
First of all, Avalon I completely agree with your statement; “For me the point of life is to just live as happily as one possibly can. Being able to accomplish something in life, that changes at least one person, that’s all I need, for the better, and I will be okay with death.´ I believe that no matter how poor or rich you are, what really matters is that you’re happy and doing the thing that you love to do. To make a difference in one person’s life is making a difference in their world.
To touch upon your many thoughts, Mike, I would just like to say that choices sometimes don’t mean anything. Most homeless and poverty stricken people didn’t choose to be that way. They’re not lazy or picky about jobs; they can’t get out of poverty. They don’t have the family support that many of us will have when we grow up. If we fall into a rut, and we’re living in poverty, most of our parents I think would do everything in their power to help us. If you don’t have transportation, you can’t get to a job. Minimum wage doesn’t even cover the bare minimum of what one needs to spend to support themselves, let alone big families. These people can’t go to school because they have no other choice when they are of working age, then to work if they can find jobs.
I don’t necessarily think that education is everything. Yes, it is extremely important and makes things a whole lot easier when it comes to jobs. However, sometimes one cannot go to school. Even if a person from the ghettos graduated from high school, how will they get the money to go to even a community college? If they’re not bright enough to get a scholarship, it isn’t their fault. Some people try all their lives and our never A or B students. It’s not their fault; it’s just not the gift they have. Lyons in Fences wants to become a musician. Music is what drives him. I believe that without a dream, there is no hope. If you don’t have a dream, then you don’t have anything to work towards and sometimes your hope is lost. If education is your dream, that’s great and you’ll have the motivation to work as hard as possible. Even if you never achieve your dream, all your life you had something work towards, something that kept you going. However, you have to do other things than just dwell on your dreams. Lyons loves music, but he doesn’t get a job. This is a problem because he can’t provide for his family. To achieve your dream, sometimes you have to do things that you don’t want to do but as long as you can see it in the distance, it gives you something to work towards. Education may be important to fulfill your dream if you want to become a doctor (just an example). However, many amazing musicians don’t even have a high school diploma. It’s important to keep your dream in sight, because it gets you through the days when you feel like everything else is lost. This is what the motivated people in the ghettos still have. Troy had his dream shattered, and although he’s maybe above the poverty level in numbers, he’s only working for his family. He doesn’t have anything to work towards and it hurts him to see Cory having a dream that Troy believes won’t come true, just because it didn’t for him.
Mike, when I mentioned that the essentials that are needed for survival (food, shelter, etc) are already given to you when you're born into rich society, I was strictly speaking about in the early stages of life. Certainly you have to learn how to sustain yourself and can't just rely on your family's wealth as you get older--I wasn't saying that you didn't. My point was that for rich society, their sole priority is school education, not street education, because since they have the money to pay for it, they would benefit the most from this type of education more than they would from learning self-defense. I agree that it is important to learn how to defend yourself, but this is more prevalent to people who are born into poverty. Going to school won't help those in poverty because firstly, they don't have the money for it, and secondly, it doesn't teach them how to survive in their environment. You proved this yourself when you mentioned your sister not being able to support herself with a college education in a poverty-stricken society. Firstly, if she was living and working in a financially impoverished part of the city (or wherever she was living), then she would most likely be working somewhere earning a minimum-wage salary, since jobs in those kinds of areas don't pay well. Secondly, a college education naturally wouldn't benefit her if she was living in poverty if she was working a low-paying job and couldn't pull herself out of poverty because of a lack of money. Those who live in poverty can't get anything out of education because they don't have the money to reach higher-paying jobs that require better education. Those who are born into wealthier society can and do get more out of education because that is their first priority for survival.
I don't know when I ever said that self-defense and survival are irrelevant to each other, because they mostly certainly are not. I agree that self-defense is important for all people in all areas of society, but I'm saying that I think self-defense is more important to those living in poverty, since they are faced with more violence than those who live in wealthier neighborhoods. Classroom education doesn't help them whatsoever while street education is their sole defense mechanism. Let me put it this way: classroom education is the defense mechanism of the rich and street education is the defense mechanism of the poverty-stricken. Since wealthier neighborhoods generally don't face as much violence as poorer neighborhoods, rich society must focus more on education itself to earn more money to remain above the poverty line. Those in poverty must educate themselves in violence and self-defense in order to defend what is theirs, and to prevent sinking further into poverty.
Okay, Molly.
First of all choices are everything. No homeless people don’t choose to be that way, but you’re sounding like Katie (no offense to either of you) when she thought Mike thought starving people don’t care about food. I also think you go way away from the point of choices with finding a job. I really disagree with this: “If you don’t have transportation, you can’t get to a job.” So now driving is the only way to get to your job? And again, YOUR ACTING LIKE SCHOOL IS THE ONLY BASIS OF EDUCATION. One of the main points we’re learning about is how much the streets educate us. For those of us who can’t go to school, guess what they do, they choose what to do next. Why? Because they care about what’s going to happen to them. But from reading your comment it seems like now all of a sudden anyone who can’t go to school is condemned to poverty. I don’t want to get more into the Beatles, but for example Ringo lived in poverty and never got a school education but look where he is today. How? He chose to make the best out of what he could and maintained his dreams.
*CHOICES ARE EVERYTHING*. You CHOOSE what’s right and what’s wrong, you CHOOSE whether to do it, you CHOOSE to get by even when things get tough because they CARE to. Everyone cares about their decisions and that is a fact. You care about what you decide to say to someone, you care about what answers you put down on a test. I could go on but I don’t feel it to be necessary.
Okay, in my comprehension you just totally contradicted yourself by saying “I don’t necessarily think that education is everything.” In your first statement you were talking about how education leads to jobs and wealth. Now all of a sudden education doesn’t completely matter? Don’t take this the wrong way though because I agree. Just because someone doesn’t get an education doesn’t mean in any way that they can not be successful. I believe I have argued this and given examples in my previous posts though so I don’t feel the need to provide details on how. But still, too many people generalize saying that poverty = no education = no success. This drives me crazy because first of all, the streets educate them, secondly the lack of education does not mean a lack of success. As I said earlier, it acts as a bridge and those who fail to get it have a harder cross getting to the point of success but it is still very possible. When you say impoverished people cannot even “get the money to go to even a community college”, it seems to me that you go and answer how yourself. Maybe I’m wrong, but when you go on about dreams and hopes you answer that. Although Cory does have the ability to go to school, what he succeeds in is something school education (meaning math, science, English, history etc.) doesn’t provide – football. You have to care about your dreams to keep them alive. As John Lennon once said, “We've got this gift of love, but love is like a precious plant. You can't just accept it and leave it in the cupboard or just think it's going to get on by itself. You've got to keep on watering it. You've got to really look after it and nurture it.” I find this to be true about dreams and hopes. You have to look after them, care for them, and nurture them. I know a dream of mine is to be a successful songwriter and guitarist/musician in a band, and I can’t just stop playing and writing and expect success will come arriving at my door. I have to care about succeeding and never put it aside. But, when you said “Even if you never achieve your dream, all your life you had something work towards, something that kept you going” I agree but find it a little contradictory to when you agreed with Avalon that happiness was found through being “able to accomplish something in life.” But in the sense of striving towards a dream, I guess impoverished people just need a dream to strive for; even if it’s something simple like getting a job.
I again find it contradictory when you say “to achieve your dream, sometimes you have to do things that you don’t want to do.” This is pretty contradictory in my head to what you said about choices aren’t everything. Again, CHOICES ARE EVERYTHING. You prove my point by saying this because it goes to show how you have to choose what to strive for, you have to choose how to get there (even if you take risky actions), and you choose who you are. And I’m sorry but you contradicted yourself again when you said dreams are “what the motivated people in the ghettos still have.” Yes, they are. But earlier you acted like (at least to me) that the people in the ghettos couldn’t get an education or job which meant they were condemned to poverty. Not true at all. Yes, the probability is higher that they won’t get a job or SCHOOL education, but they still have dreams to strive for and goals to accomplish; and to me that is all you need.
Whitney Pasternack
March 6, 2006
Judges
Judgment for me comes in levels of important. Not levels like the Judicial Branch, but interior levels that determine how important different people’s opinions mean to me. The most important judge I have is my family. Not because I do everything my parents tell me to, which I don’t. I’ll go out of my way to start arguments with my parents, to test boundaries, to be difficult. Hours after a fight with any member of my family, however, I’ll still be arguing with myself. Moping. Trying to excuse my own behavior to myself, trying to think of a reason why I deserve to be forgiven for making things harder for the people who gave me life. On the other side my family equation is my sister, complicating things. Her choices and opinions are the mirror opposite of my parents’. I can’t please all three of them at once. The motivation between letting my parents judge me, guide me, has to do with survival, where as following my sister has to do with getting approval and fitting in. Neither one is more important to me: to survive without friends and acceptance would be miserable, but to be accepted and but failing everything else wouldn’t be any better.
My second greatest judge, or rather, judges, are my friends. It’s not always a bad thing to be judged. My friends keep me in line when I do something stupid, or when something dangerous, or something that I might regret. Judges influence the way we act, but not necessarily in a bad way. There is an aspect of peer pressure, sure: I do a lot of things in the company of close friends that I might not have done on my own, but the influence they have on me is a good one. With my friends, I’ve redefined my morals to something I can live my life by, created a balance between survival and acceptance. Their approval means everything to me, but only because I decide it does. Some judges I was born with, like my parents and sister, but I choose my friends to help me along.
Third is pretty much everybody else. Teachers, students from other grades, kids I don’t know: people who I may or may not have to deal with tomorrow, people who decide my future and must be impressed. I find myself constantly trying to prove myself and appeal to the over generalized masses. They affect my political and religious beliefs, my choices in behavior, even my choice in clothes. They don’t always have a negative affect on me, but when they do, there’s no way to shake the control they have over my life. I can stop speaking to my family once I turn 18. I can walk away from my friends. I can never leave behind a world of watchful strangers. In this way, their omnipresence makes them my largest judge. A judge who I don’t even have a single name for.
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